If this isn’t funny, it’s your time of the month too, OK?
Guy 1: “Dude the prof is such a bitch!”
Guy 2: “Yeah. It must’ve been that time of the month for her.”
Random Girl: “That is like so incredibly sexist!! UGH!” *storms off*
Guy 2: “What the hell was that all about?”
Guy 1: “Must be that time of month for her too.”
Guy 2: “For real.”
—Otto Maass
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80 Comments :
Title ruined the punchline for me
Hahaha, I bet that random girl was Kathleen Burdo.
Nope, that actually wasn’t me, surprisingly–but I certainly would have said that in that situation.
However, thanks for the vote of confidence in my ability to identify sexist comments! That one, I think, is something that most people could identify as sexist though…it’s one of those pretty obvious and basic ones.
Kathleen Burdo Says! “That’s Sexual Harassment!”
Guy: “But…”
KB: “That’s Sexual Harassment!”
Guy: “I…!”
KB: “That’s Sexual Harassment!”
Guy: “Woman power…?”
KB: “That’s sexist!”
Guy: “Sigh….”
*Gives up and walks away*
I’m torn between my attraction to Miss Burdo, and my complete addiction to coherent expression and conceptual clarity. I can’t avoid pointing out that the ”random girl” was actually wrong in her sexist-predication, though ”Anonymous 1” is clearly needlessly mean to the wonderful Miss Burdo. What a lack of elegance. Oh well… a lot McGill people are mostly not polite and elegant, so this sort of comment suprises me less now than it used to last year. At least he/she had the ability to feel some sense of shame, which he displayed by remaining anonymous. Or perhaps was it fear? Of what? KB and other girls might bite hard when offended, but be kind and resonable with them and they will treat you like people too. Why prefer confrontation? There’s better ways to feel powerful, trust me.
I feel that the random girl – sorry Kathleen – is wrong for two reasons:
1. Being sexist is predicating of persons something that does not normatively pertain to their gender, but that the social realm, institutions or other contexts have associated more strongly with one gender. The contrapositive can also be sexism: explaining non-normative qualities of people by referencing their gender. Hence biological facts cant be used to be fashioned into sexist references, because nobody can do anything about them. For example, if one becomes pregnant, then to say ”oh its because she’s a girl” is not sexist. Its just true.
In that line of thought, to explain bitchy behavior by hypothesizing period-time for a girl is not sexist but plausible – I know myself too well to not be willing to admit that I indeed am more prone to sudden anger a few days per month. And this is not part of my personality, its just a biological fact that I cant avoid, only monitor.
So to say of a girl that she is bitchy *because* she is in her period might be mistaken, but its not sexist, because it might actually be true.
2. Further, its actually conceptually ”kind” of Guys 1&2 to make that hypothesis – even though they werent meaning to be kind. They could have been saying: ”She’s so bitchy. Its probably because she’s a girl.” Or even worse: ”Its probably because she’s a women prof, and all women profs are frustrated of life and bitchy”. Now comments in that line would really be sexist, offensive, etc. But by hypothesizing period-time as an explanation of bitchy behavior, the Guys were actually saying ‘’she’s bitchy, but then perhaps its not in her character and she might not be bitchy all of the time, its just that she is in her period”.
All in all, if I were to be bitchy to somebody, I’d rather have them think its because of my period than for any other reason. It might make me look stupid and unable to monitor myself when I know I’m prone to be angry, but its better than have somebody think that its my normal state of being.
*
So this is a long post – my only excuse is that I dont have exams left, and I can take my sweet time. If my argument on sexist-predication offends anyone, then that wasnt the goal. I’m more interested in discussing concepts than in defending any particular position, though I think on this one I cant be really wrong. The only one thing I wont relent on, though, is my heartfelt enthusiasm for Miss Burdo.
Ah, some sanity.
Oh Zoé-love, we’ll converse later tonight about this in more detail, but my response for now is this:
When women are upset or in a bad mood, it is automatically attributed to a biological function. When a man is in a bad mood, it is obviously causal. Women cannot be in bad moods merely because they are in bad moods, it MUST be because of hormones. This is a sexist way of thinking.
Using biological functions as a means for separating women out–whether it be by explaining their behaviour or whatnot–is sexist. Not because it isn’t true that women have periods (obviously) but because the assumption that women are only grumpy when on them, or that if they are grumpy they are mentstrating, is not biological–it is a socially constructed idea.
Essentially, it comes down to the idea that women cannot be upset unless they are menstrating, and then people automatically assume that if a guy is upset, it is not due to his hormones (and men do have hormonal changes and shifts every month, though they don’t menstrate) but if a woman is, it is because of her biological function and obviously not causal, even though not all women do not experience PMS.
But thank you for defending me.
Also, I’d like to say that the second comment from “Anonymous” is actually very offensive. I know what you are referring to, and it was sexual harassment. I have received apologies both from the person who did that as well as the EUS Representative to SSMU, who completely agrees with me that it was sexual harassment and wrong, and is currently working with me to arrange a workshop on sexual harassment and sexism for the group of people who were involved.
well said, kathleen.
[i don't know you personally but your comment explaining the sexism of the "she's angry? she MUST be menstruating" type of thinking was great.]
Kathleen, you seriously need to take your little freshman mouth and shut it every once in a while. Oh, and relax. That could help you as well.
To quote Jessica Chobot, “Loosen up or you’ll never get laid!” Haha! Live and let live.
Actually, my comment was regarding the fact that every time I seem to hear your name, it’s in connection to you being outraged over someone doing or saying something sexist or sexually harassing, and from what I’ve seen, it seems to be on the most ridiculous of provocations.
I’ll take your word on the case you’re talking about though, since I only heard about it 4th hand, and my comment wasn’t meant as a judgment call on that specifically
But I have to say, based on all the contexts I hear / see your name… either you have one shitty life and the world is out to get you, especially because you’re a girl… in which case you have my sympathies… or you have one hell of a victim complex
seriously, I’m a girl, and when its “that time of the month” yes, you are a bitch, it is a sexist thing, because boys don’t get it, simple. Nothing to get defensive about.
I personally blame the guy that let women vote all those ages ago. I have to: do my own laundry, cook my own food, and as a proud stupid man FERTILISE AND GIVE BIRTH TO MY OWN OFFSPRING. Isn’t there someone out there who can do all this stuff for me?
Oh yah…..Women!
Now you see, that above is sexism. boo yah i’m out one love
p.s. please people, remove the brooms! let’s calm it down a little
Ben franklin you sexist ass. That’s it we’re taking you off the 100 and placing your face on the brand new $69.00 bill, entitled “the shocker”, just as a reminder to assholes everywhere that women have rights now.
Please everyone, respect women in your everyday life…they have REALLY GOOD LAWYERS
ugh Kathleen Burdo intimidates me. Luckily I can still objectify her in the sanctity of my mind.
Girls use their periods as excuses for all kinds of behavior (skipping class, eating chocolate, being bitchy). In my opinion, that puts women in no position to complain when guys use the same excuse to explain away that kind of behavior.
p.s. Anyone who finds that whole period comment thing offensive, I highly recommend you stay away from watching Freaks and Geeks.
all i have to say is that anyone who is still in a tizzy about the whole ‘penises are different than vaginas’ thing enough to make comments about menstruation at the age of 20-something lacks a strong range of conversational topics and insights. they might be in need of a hobby. i suggest knitting.
and kb fucks quite frequently, so ‘kevin’ should probably fact-check.
kisses!
The whole idea of PMS is amusing to me. Personally, I don’t think I ever PMS’ed until I heard about it. It’s that simple. Before I heard about all these hormones affecting my mood blah blah blah, I simply made sure that any kind of bad mood would not spill out as an effect on others – whether around period-time or not – simply out of respect. But being aware of PMS and its biological and societal implications gives me a subconscious excuse. Even though I know that, really, it shouldn’t; and I control that effect as much as I consciously can. If us women are going to talk about equality, we should expect the same reactions and consequences as a man in a bad mood would receive (obviously, two different people may and likely will react differently to the same person’s bad mood).
Hmm… I’m not sure where I was going with all this. Basically, since there seems to be a HUGE range of perceptions as to what stigma specifically is attached to periods/PMS in such joking situations, that conversation should have gone like this:
“Dude the prof is such a bitch!”
“Yeah, hopefully it was just a bad day, or we’re in for one hell of a semester”
Sure, it doesn’t make an O@M story, but to me it sounds like something closer to normal communication.
I’m pretty amused by the Kathleen debacle, and I do think she should mature a bit and relax on the attention-seeking. However, she’s entertaining.
This shouldn’t be sexist as I’m a fourth year queer woman!
But really, I’m just amused.
Answering kathleen:
It is my heartfelt pleasure to call to order any person who might become impolite and agressive with you, and if the occasion arises I shall indeed defend you with all of my enthusiasm. But that is not what I was doing in my post. I still think the random girl was needlessly upset.
You say that it is sexism towards women to posit that only our gender is biologically limited in its emotions: that a women cannot be upset unless its *internal* biological clock decides so. First of all, I’ve never been confronted to such an absurd claim, and I certainly do not see that claim being implied by the OaM discussion. That claim might be *compatible* with that dicussion, but we cant infer from the discussion that the guys were entertaining it. So I dont see the point of refuting it, because even if we did show how its conceptually impossible, given that emotions are an interplay of subjectivity, self-perception and physical reactions (this is a very rough and unformal description though), it would not succeed in showing that the guys were wrong in any way whatsoever.
Further, emotions are not hard-wired biological facts. Basically what you are going against in your post is the assumption that men can have > whereas women would be limited to be acted upon emotionally by their own bodies. Well, that is one sexist assumption, that might be entertained by social circles, but it can only be resolved through empirical investigation. The whole industry of philosophy, psychology, neuroscience &al. are currently making baby steps in trying to understand what emotions are. Its not surprising people might have very crude views – science is hardly any better yet. I agree with you that it might be frustrating to realize that some men think you dont have as much free will as them just because of your gender, but hey! the fact is that this just brings in the question of the definition of free will, and depending on how we choose to define free will, it might even be true. So a feminist’s task is indeed huge: every definition must be examined, to see how it affects the way women are defined and perceived.
Because of the immensity of the work that needs to be done, its tempting to let ourselves see outrageousness everywhere. Projecting bad thoughts on a dumb conversation is what the random girl did, seeing outrageousness where there was not necessarily, and you seem to agree with her. Well I really cant follow you there, for there is a complete lack of evidence that the guys were actually entertaining any specific thoughts in the line of their prof lacking the right or possibility be angry in the same way that they can, as males.
I agree a lot of our common day-to-day definitions are male-oriented (such as free will), yet not all males are necessarily saying bad things whenever they joke around about issues surrounding women. I dont know who the random girl was, but her agressiveness was certainly not justified. That said… I remain by your side and near you 100% I absolutely adore you, and I can’t wait to see you. Kathleen, you are one hell of a woman.
Kathleen, calm down. Seriously. The whole world is NOT out to get you. Get your panties un-knotted, and grow up. Just because someoone asks to see your tits, does not mean they are being sexist. A lewd and innapropriate comment, but a sexist one, no. And the period comment? seriously? Maybe saying ’she’s on her period’ is just nicer than saying ‘wow, shes a bitch.’ I mean, at least it’s excusing her behavior instead of condeming it. And don’t even say that calling a girl a bitch when she’s pissed is sexist, because girls just as often call guys ‘asses,’ and you don’t hear us complaining about how sexist it is.
So lose the victim complex, put aside the strap on, and get a little older than just U0 before you start spraying your pissy-juices all over the place.
How’s that for sexist.
re: Your Mom
Someone asking me to show my tits is not only sexist, it is sexual harassment, and by the SACOMSS definition (and that of most people who deal with sexual violence issues) sexual assault. You’re judgement of the situation is completely ridiculous, considering that I have received apologies from people involved and am working with the EUS Rep to rectify the situation.
Also, I wasn’t going to say that calling a woman a bitch is sexist.
People keep bringing up this victim complex thing. If I had a victim complex, I would have had a lot more issues this year than the ONE that I have had, trust me.
I wouldn’t say your last comment was sexist, though it was obviously immature, obnoxious, and possibly ageist or homophobic (what my age or especially my sexual practices have to do with anything, I’m not sure).
At least, being a U0, I have the maturity to not make ad hominem attacks on people that I don’t know, or invalidate people’s feelings of sexual harassment. I will take you seriously when you can (as well as everyone else), like Zoé, attack my ideas and arguments with logic and well-constructed arguements, and not my person with malicious words.
Also: Zoé, again,
damn, there was supposed to be a heart on both of those.
so, it was supposed to say:
Also, Zoé, again: (heart).
There. Damn technology.
(I’ll respond to your argument when my step-mother leaves, or when I see you again)
Congratulations! After nearly a full school year of being up, we have our first full fledged FLAME WAR.
Honestly, it took longer than I thought it would take. Overheard at Western, for example, has flame wars nearly every day. But who can blame them, what else is there to do at Western?
Quote from a psych textbook “When a man can’t explain a woman’s actions, the first thing he thinks about is the condition of her uterus.”
Clare Boothe Luce
I thought it was interesting, and relevant to this whole discussion. Was the comment sexist? Perhaps. But its still how people think, men and women.
Whether or not what you felt was sexual harassment is something I’ll let lie, because regardless of what other people said, you obviously felt that he was exhibiting sexual conduct that in some way had such an effect on you that it would impair your educational performance (The Greenbook definition of sexual harassment)
But calling it sexual assault is a specious claim that just puts my back up and makes me so frustrated with you that I can’t bring myself to support someone who I would otherwise be feeling immense sympathy for. It makes me even doubt your original claim to Sexual Harassment – you seem to have no problem throwing around emotionally charged terms to garner support for your personal affront, with no thought to the consequences of such a thing.
Sexual assault is “Any unwanted ACT of a sexual nature … ranging from inappropriate touching… to forced sexual activity and rape” – Web Definition
or “Non-consensual physical contact of a sexual nature” – Brown University definition. Look up any definition you want. Sexual Assault involves contact.
As someone who has been sexually assaulted, your attitude appalls me. It shows that you don’t take sexual assault seriously. You see it as a term to apply that will incur more outrage on your behalf. Maybe you don’t see what’s wrong with that. Maybe you even think you have a legitimate reason to use that term. But what you’re doing is basically the most damaging thing that any person, male or female, can do to the cause of real sexual issues. It trivializes real sexual assault, especially because you’re being so vocal about it. People see calling what happened to you “sexual assault” and intentionally or not, they start associating such an overreaction to every time they hear “sexual assault”. Using that term to garner attention is what helps idiots and assholes feel justified in saying the girl crying rape is just doing it for attention.
It’s a similar, but much more severe, version of you crying sexist foul when that guy called you Kathy. Taking something that had no overt gender issues attached to it and saying it happened because you’re a woman means is what makes people not take women’s struggles seriously. It contributes to the terms “sexism” being so made fun of and marginalized – because people see you, a self-proclaimed feminist, always jumping to the conclusion that things are sexually- or gender-motivated, regardless of whether or not thats the case, and so when it really happens, when someone really is discriminated against or assaulted, they take the term so much less seriously, because they see it being applied to completely ridiculous statements like this one.
If you really want to help women’s issues, stop being so ready to play the “gender card”. Start acting like you actually believe that you won’t be treated any differently, that people are condescending to you because of who you are or what you said, not your gender. You can’t change other people’s actions, only your own, and yours are currently perpetrating the “rabid feminist getting upset over nothing” stereotype.
Also perpetrating = perpetuating. Got so upset I couldn’t type straight
If she calls it sexual assault, then the guy is a sexual predator / immature jerk and deserving of the hatred of women everywhere, because he clearly doesn’t like/respect women
If she addresses that he was just being mean to her, then she has to deal with the fact that some people just don’t like her for who she is.
and now kathleen burdo will respond with yet another essay…
… and actually, it wasn’t even harassment… Harassment is “Any vexation behaviour… in the form of *repeated* hostile or unwanted conduct, verbal comments….”
I stress the word repeated. The only time it’s called harassment for a one-time thing is
“Within Within the
employment relationship, a single serious incidence of such behaviour that has a lasting harmful
effect on such an individual may also constitute Harassment.”
It wasn’t repeated, it wasn’t an employment relationship, and if something like that has a “lasting harmful effect” on this girl, she really needs to not ever go outside. God forbid she walk past a construction site
I guess I’m kind of shocked that THIS was the OaM entry that induced a full-out Burdo flame war? I didn’t even find the quote particularly clever or scathing.
The issue of whether this is sexual harassment or not aside, defining the act at the SSMU banquet as sexist might not be terribly accurate.
Had the individual who said “show me your tits” been female, would this still be considered sexist?
If the answer is yes, well disregard the rest of my rant. However, if it is no, I think this would imply sexism on behalf of Kathleen, given that the reason for accusing of sexism, was the sex of the individual.
Basically, Kathleen, someone wiser than me once said, “when pointing the finger at someone, remember there are four other fingers pointing right back at you”. I think this may apply here.
ain’t it the truth… kathleen burdo’s getting attacked from all sides! (in a non-sexual way, so don’t be accusing anybody of harassment)
why is the EUS rep involved in any of this? Wasnt it an isolated incident? Or is it more fun to persecute a whole faculty?
It was an isolated incident and a comment by an individual.. who also happens to be a grad student and not a member of the Engineering UNDERGRADUATE Society at all.
I don’t know why the EUS SSMU rep got involved, or why a group of people are being persecuted. Maybe he’s doing it to stave off Ms. Burdo’s threat of filing a sexual harassment complaint against everyone that was there.
Although exactly what grounds she’s filing the complaint on I’m not too sure of, since the *individual* in question has already apologized for his inappropriate comment.
of course its more fun to persecute a whole faculty- cuz we’re all loud geeky immoral beer-chugging chauvinist pigs, kathleen burdo feels like she needs to condemn us for our lack of morals. but i’m sure she has nice tits though, so i will forgive her.
Well I guess we can all agree that Burdo is a feminazi.
Really, someone needs to muzzle this girl. Here’s the way I would have handled the situation.
“Show me your tits!”
“No”
Then you walk away, instead of finding something to do with the meaningless existence that is your life. Not everything needs to be blown up – you aren’t important and being ridiculous about everything isn’t going to help you out in the real world. Learn that kiddo. Yea, Burdo is certainly a feminazi – RELAX. You have three years left year Kathy, try not to piss off all but three people on campus in your first year.
Oh, and about that comment about walking by a construction site…it’s quite true.
Not that it would happen to HER, but what would KB do if a car drove by her and honked at her. Sue the municipality, file another harrassment suit? Idiot.
33 people died at virginia tech this week..no reason it can’t happen here..it has…twice..and we’re arguing about what….TITS? Sorry, breastesses… Let’s get it together people, this is fucking amateur. Put aside differences and come away for the better. I mean, they must be an insane set of tits if they cause this much stir. Come on people, let’s show people how good McGill undergrads can be.
So here is Kathleen, who writes about “democracy” in SSMU in the Daily. Responses to her article, rational and logical, explain that a majority vote, not a unanimous one, gets people elected.
Then, Kathleen picks on the gender of one of the respondents. This IS sexist AND ad hominem – when she can’t attack the argument, she attacks the speaker. She tries to play the “gender card”, only to get logical and pragmatic responses and a friendly advice from Engineering girls.
Check.
Finally, Kathleen tries to play the “harassment card” and use loaded words like “sexual assault” hoping that black PR associated with it will do its damage and she won’t need to prove it – modus operandi of a typical feminazi. But what do we get in response here? Definitions of sexual assault and sexual harassment are posted. Also, victims of real sexual assault incidents speak up! They do not like how she trivializes sexual assault, and their opinions about sexual assault have more weight!
Check.
Is she going for a checkmate?
So, here I am repeating the friendly advice from the Engineering girls: lighten up and your stay at McGill will be more enjoyable.
Many people here play games like chess, thinking several moves ahead, and can argue in a rational way better than what I have seen from you so far.
An aside: I am happy with the outcome of SSMU presidential elections. I am happy that the lefties won’t spend as much money on stuff most don’t need. I would opt-out of SSMU fees altogether, if it were possible, as my faculty student society is serving my needs a lot better.
kathleen burdo should read this http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=feminazi
hahah that’s awesome
My Dear Kathleen, it seems to follow from these posts that most people think you are overreacting and denouncing too much things as sexist. I agree with them, for the most part, because I think you extend too much the definition of sexual harassment, assault and sexism for them to remain meaningful and useful – or at the very least that there are some incoherences in your argumentations on what sexism. Words are tools! We cant be too careful in how we treat them, for they can indeed become blunt.
But then some of the people disagreeing with you are crude or mean, and looking down on you for it- and this is where they are wrong! You have a wonderful energy, an immense will to be in the world and a desire for the good, and you seem to be prone to commit selflessly and enduringly to people you think deserve you. Its truly beautiful. I love it.
To be able to do powerful things towards the ends you take to be noble, though, you must have the right tools in hand. This is just the beginning of your involvement in public matters which, I think, will and should be lifelong, and your rather flamboyant introduction to the McGill public scene is a good occasion to learn which tools make one able to convince people and to change things. What are you learning from it?
I personally am far from having evaluated conclusively (will I ever?)how much I support violence, various feminist and political claims, etc. The one thing I’m convinced of though is that I never have enough rigorousness in my reasoning, knowledge of my field of interest and imagination in my thinking, and that fallacies, misascriptions, errors of categories and invalid arguments are always ready to jump into my discourse and thus make it wrong and ineffective.
I want you to come to feel the same, because it provides a solid motivation for learning, avid interest in the discourses of others and confidence in action, and such enthusiasm is unalienable and grounding. Such enthusiasm makes it easier to admit it when I make a mistake in speech or in action, for it makes it easier to remember that the aim is not to be right, but to contribute to what one thinks is right. Meaningful Action! That is truly the best thing the world is made of. I know for sure that you have noble aims, I see it plainly in your eyes, your laughter, your kisses. I am asking you to see it too. I want you to give yourself the means to contribute to them. I miss you.
errata in paragraph 1; should read:
”in your argumentations on what sexism IS”.
It should be erratum, not errata. It was a single error, not a list of them.
Also, argumentation shouldn’t be pluralized.
Oh snap.
As an editor, I have an overwhelming urge to attack that with a red pen.
Excellent thinking behind it, but Oh! the verbiage!
Euhh…you support violence? Oki…good to know!
violence, ah yes…we engineers throw calculators at naive whiny first year who dares to pick on our faculty…now wait til i dig out those spare steel parts from the civil labs, and then build a big catapult aiming right at burdo…
no wait, that could be our frosh design competition.
I have a crush on Kathleen. Nipple.
Kathleen, your historical revisionism skills need major improvement. Lots of unaccounted factors in all of your arguments. You may want to join the New Chronology movement, whose works on world history are so convincing that they sold tons of books:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)
Erratum (!)
URL should be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_%28Fomenko%29
I fully support all the sentiments that Zoe has expressed in her last post. I hope you continue being a true friend of Kathleen’s and that you help each other grow. It’s exciting to see people grapple to take charge of their lives and their world, and the straightest path to growing and learning IS strewn with misjudgments and falls and scrapes, so I hope you two keep pushing and challenging, because I believe you’ll slowly move along figuring things out, which is something I’m not sure that either myself or some of the others here will ever get any closer towards. I think Kathleen has had a great start at McGill – voicing one’s opinions strongly is a sure way to elicit dissent, so then one can listen to the arguments of those who intelligently (even if not respectfully) disagree. Let yourself be questioned, gain new understanding, and you may come to fine-tune yourself and your views accordingly, and even keep changing them with time. I imagine that will take a lot of energy and spirit, but be hampered by pride.
So, I wish Kathleen a lifetime of both strength and humility. I’m excited to see what comes of it.
omg send these notes to each other but stop posting them here!!!
also, i think kb gave up
haha we win
Ack! I read that over, and to clarify (because I definitely did NOT mean to sound like there have been identifiable misjudgments already committed):
It’s exciting to see people grapple to take charge of their lives and their world, and the straightest path to growing and learning IS also strewn with misjudgments and falls and scrapes, so I hope you two allow will always yourselves that, and keep pushing and challenging, because I believe you’ll slowly move along figuring things out, which is something I’m not sure that either myself or some of the others here (who are so afraid of being wrong that they won’t even consider what could be right) will ever get any closer towards.
(I hope that what I mean to mean got across there. Words can feel like such a tricky and inadequate way of expressing… something.)
Well, this has to be said.
These are the gayest comments ever.
I really wish I had time to construct a detailed and incisively insightful response to this highly entertaining series of comments. Regarding the ambiguity surrounding sexual harassment and tensions in society, people need to work constructively instead of hurling accusations back and forth. Problems are solved by the people willing to sit down and understand each other’s perspectives, not by those with rigid ideological boundaries (on either side).
It would be invigorating to continue spilling my thoughts out about this, but if I fail my ridiculously hard engineering exams (dammn those professors), I will be subjected to an extra year of people at McGill focusing on micro-politics while the world is going to hell in a handbasket.
On a side note, I wish that engineers and environmentalists were better friends; the engineers will be the people actually doing most of the work in finding ways to change us to a green society. If we could get over our personal issues and prejudices, maybe we wouldn’t waste so much time whining about ourselves and we could focus on more important issues that affect everyone.
END MINI RANT;
agreed. Now everyone shut the fuck up
This will be my last response, because with the number of comments, there is no way I can respond to everyone, and I think that this has mostly stopped being constructive.
1) This has nothing to do with EUS as a whole, nor do I have it out for engineers. I respect the intelligence that it takes to be an engineer, a type of intelligence that I entirely lack. The EUS Rep is involved because he was present for the incident and offered to be a liasion between myself and the group of people, because he cares about what is going on and wants to make sure the most constructive solution is found.
2) I was not claiming that what happened to me was sexual assault, merely pointing out that SACOMSS (as the External Coordinator told me) would define what happened as sexual assault. I apologise if this offended anyone. There the aspect of whether assault should be defined from the viewpoint of the victim or the perpetrator here, which I won’t go into. As someone who has been sexually assaulted as well, in fact quite recently, I will say that what happened at the SSMU Awards affected me much more than the sexual assault (as normally defined–i.e. physical) that I experienced did. Of course, as anything, that is personal and subjective.
3) Zoé, as always, and this time Nathalie as well, thank you for the constructive and insightful (as well as respectful!) comments.
4) Whether people think I am overlysensitive, a femininazi, or what, I hope we can all agree that sexism certainly exists in the world, and that everyone deserves the same degree of respect regardless of gender or other irrelevant personal characteristics.
More than anything, I hope that this “flame war,” as Yahel called it, gave all of us a little more to think about and challenged our currently held beliefs a little bit–I know, for myself, that it gave me some things to think about for sure.
I hope everyone has a wonderful summer.
First, I am only disclosing my sexuality due to the degree of relevance to the discussion. I’m also withholding my gender/sex for the same reason.
I know all individuals and groups invovled personnally, both this post and the situation at the SSMU banquet were not cases of sexual harassment or homophobia or sexism. My grounds for saying so are that I am well-informed as to the motives of all these statements including the one that offended Ms. Burdo. As a student in engineering of alternate sexuality, whether male or female, I can testify to the fact that it is a very warm and open social sphere, perhaps the one that Ms. Burdo seeks to live in.
In my faculty, people judge me for my personality, my intelligence, and my actions as well as their consequences, I am proud to say that my sexuality and gender have no effect on my academic or social life here in engineering at mcgill, not even reverse discrimination.
Therefore, taking out the context of sexism, heteronomativity, and all related issues, what is there left in the situation? The answer to that question is, not much. Ms. Burdo had as we all do, a complete right to be offended for a lewd comment. However, my interest is in preventing real sexual harassment and sexism and this situation has only frightened me. Congratulations Kathleen and all those who have supported or acknowledged the “severity” of this situation. You have served to promote the point of view of the person in this discussion who said:
“It shows that you don’t take sexual assault seriously.”
“It trivializes real sexual assault, especially because you’re being so vocal about it.”
“Taking something that had no overt gender issues attached to it and saying it happened because you’re a woman means is what makes people not take women’s struggles seriously.”
If I am ever sexually harassed, discriminated against, or feel that I am being granted something I don’t deserve based on my sexuality, gender, sex, I hope that I will be heard and that no reference or association is ever made to this situation. Sadly, I would not bet on that outcome, would you? Thank you all, with a few notable exceptions, for making a complete mockery of the progress made in society with regard to these issues. And for you Ms. Burdo, take heed of the fable. The wolf will not discriminate.
Nothing but
the last line is a typo and should be omitted.
Good job Burdo, backtracking like that. MERTW. Have fun flipping burgers and serving fries or maybe you could take up basket weaving.
She didn’t backtrack, actually. Where did she ever accuse ALL ENGINEERS of being sexist pigs? People are just way too eager to accuse her of being a craaaaaazy radical lesbian.
Additionally:
“Well, this has to be said.
These are the gayest comments ever.”
Thank you for, intentionally or not, epitomizing everything that’s wrong with this thread. Jesus.
Seriously, would people just drop this thing already?
“Well, this has to be said.
These are the gayest comments ever.â€
How dare you perpetuate the hetrosexist status quo by subjecting people to this insensitive… *heads explodes*
Regardless of whether or not Kathleen is planning on replying to more comments or not, I feel as though after A’s comment, I need to post my own;
Kathleen…I doubt you would know sexual assault if it crawled up your vagina and stayed there forever.
As a rape victim, I am absolutely DISGUSTED at your ability to call everything and anything with the slightest reference to women as made by men sexual harassment and/or assault.
Had you EVER actually been through ANY trauma what so ever, I assure you, hearing someone say “must be because she’s on her period” or “show me your tits” would be of zero significance.
You are an absolute disgrace to the entire female culture. Rather than standing up for yourself like any REAL woman WOULD, you victimize yourself by throwing out terms like harassment and assault. Not only are you downplaying the magnitude of those terms, you are also making women like weak little cry-babies who tactfully (or not) use their gender as a scapegoat because your self-esteem is non-existent.
Please, do us all a favour and either go get raped and actually understand what it MEANS to be sexually assaulted, or stop trying to defend yourself by demeaning anyone else’s experience who actually HAS.
“Please, do us all a favour and either go get raped and actually understand what it MEANS to be sexually assaulted [or figure out what it MEANS to be sexually assaulted, or stop trying to defend yourself by demeaning anyone else’s experience who actually HAS].”
Fucking. Owned.
From Urban Dictionary: “To do an Amir” – To con money out of someone, lie or be otherwise dishonest, only to face ritual humiliation on a worldwide scale.
From Amir Massoud Tofangsazan of Barnet, London, who sold a faulty laptop on Ebay, the buyer of which then set up a website showing many of the images found on the hard drive.
http://amirtofangsazan.blogspot.com/
“To go Burdo on someone”, anyone?
On a good note Katherine, my father once told me that the day I had a website dedicated to hating me, I could open a bottle of champagne: it would mean I’d at least have succeeded in something.
You should at least buy it,you deserve it after this unending online witch trial.Funnily enough, a recurring fault of yours seems to be that your a first year student (= no freedom of expression?).I’m suprised you haven’t been arrested yet for daring speak your mind to the elders of the tribe. Sacrilege!
Come on people, relax.This quote is funny, ,because there is some truth to it. Someone asking you to see your tits is a degrading experience, NOT as bad as getting raped, but still.
Next time Kb,instead of using civilized ways of getting back at the guy, just slap him. Less problems, and he won;t be victimised:)
Barbara, slap me in the face, and I will go completely Burdo on you afterwards!
Just saying that if she had just hit the guy, I doubt she’d have this reputation
hehe, Kathleen’s last post settles it. I would be a little more sympathetic if it was accompanied by an apology about her overreaction. Some people need to understand that there’s never a good//bad side to an argument, just 2 sides.
All I can say is: If you got a problem, settle it with the people involved, instead of drawing everyone in, because no matter how many people agree with you, there will still be a lot of people who will disagree and may hate you for it. It generally not a smart thing to have people from all the way to the opposite side of the campus hating you.
Man, I am so glad I don’t go to this school.
Anna, show me your tits
‘Such women dream of being raped ,but no one wants them ‘
-MP Vladimir Zhirinovsky on feminists
Kathleen, what’s tha hell???
http://www.tvmcgill.com/index.php?movie_name=news.sfs.10.17.07.flv&category=news